Tarot Interviews

Do It Scared: Sage Fung on Tarot, Leaving Home, and Embracing the Unknown

• Finbarre Snarey | Tarot Interviews • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Beth Sage Phung is a nonbinary, first generation Asian-American writer and voice actor. They have poetry published in the Boats Against the Current magazine and the second Poets Underground Anthology, as well as various pieces posted on their Instagram account. Their voice acting talents can be heard most notably as Cassius in the audio drama Syntax. 

Their writing highlights their personal experience with their identity and interpersonal relationships, as well as their time spent working as a teacher in American junior and high schools. When not working at their day job, they find moments here and there to put pen to paper.

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If you're curious about the cards we use and want to find out more, visit our Tarot Interviews podcast page.

Disclaimer: The Tarot Interviews podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute professional, legal, financial, medical, or psychological advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek guidance from qualified professionals where appropriate.

Finbarre Snarey:

Welcome back to Tarot Interviews with Finn. Today we're thrilled to introduce Sage Beth Fung, a creative force behind Twin Strangers Productions. Sage as a writer, director of the upcoming audio drama Rites of Descendancy, a young adult fantasy buildings Roman drama that follows Leonardo as he approaches her 20th birthday and participates in a ceremony known as the Rights of Descendancy. Additionally, sage voices the character Cassius Thatcher in the science fiction horror audio drama Syntax about a team of explorers investigating mysterious artifacts. So let's find out more about Sage, her creative journey, inspirations and the magic she brings to her work. Sage Fung, welcome to Tarot Interviews. How has your weekend been so far?

Beth Sage Phung:

So far. I played Dungeons and Dragons yesterday and the day before that, and so I have been recovering from a cold, so if I sound a little stuffy I apologize, but otherwise it's been great, very restful weekend. I work a nine to five, monday through Friday, so it's nice to enjoy my weekends.

Finbarre Snarey:

And your D&D campaign. What kind of character have you been playing? Recently, one campaign I play a sea elf cleric and in the other campaign I play a high elf paladin, of which is the god of death bless you and you've been under the weather and you're rocking these two characters that should, I believe, on no dndx, but have some kind of healing magic.

Beth Sage Phung:

Yes, it's quite ironic. I'll have to leave something on my altar for Apollo later, for sure.

Finbarre Snarey:

Yes, my wife has started DMing our games. We've started with the Beginner's Pack with D&D and it is such a lovely experience to sit around with the family, the children just unleashing chaos and unpredictable mayhem.

Beth Sage Phung:

It's what D&D was made for to make them pull their hair out and for everybody to have a great time excellent.

Finbarre Snarey:

well, I have your cards in my hand here today, so what we're going to do is shuffle them, split the deck and you tell me when to stop. So when you're ready, here are the cards, and they have been riffle shuffled with an inch of their life, ten riffle shuffles, and I'm just going to overhand leisurely and tell me when to stop.

Beth Sage Phung:

We'll stop there.

Finbarre Snarey:

There. Okay, this is one that I've been seeing rather recently the Page of Wands. What are you feeling when you see that card?

Beth Sage Phung:

Well, I'm surprised because wands usually don't show their face around me. They don't usually make their way towards me. Usually, whenever I pull for myself in tarot, I always end up with um swords. So okay, it's nice to see something different, and I'm also surprised by the page.

Finbarre Snarey:

I mean, what vibes are you getting from this one? I would say hopeful, I mean it is classically the kind of fresh inspirations, new beginnings, sparks of creativity. It's all very optimistic and of course you've got the enthusiasm, the curiosity, desire to explore new ideas and ventures Right.

Beth Sage Phung:

So if I was to make that into a question, what new skills are you currently exploring when it comes to creative projects? It's been interesting kind of going behind the scenes and making my own show, so it's been quite a process of learning and it's definitely a learning curve. But I like to learn new things, so I always like to add more skills under the tool belt. I don't want to call myself a jack of all trades, master of none, but maybe a master of some.

Finbarre Snarey:

Okay, which platform are you using to do your audio editing on?

Beth Sage Phung:

We usually use Adobe, but I personally record on Reaper.

Finbarre Snarey:

Now, I've yet to try Reaper out. Is it any good?

Beth Sage Phung:

I like it. It's a bit of a learning curve. At first it kind of throws a lot of features at you, but I followed the setup tutorial that they provide on their website and it worked pretty well. And then you kind of adjust the audio levels for your microphone and then, once you're there, you're pretty set.

Finbarre Snarey:

So it's a bit of a setup the first and only editor I've really got to grips with was Adobe Audition, and I think I used it back in I don't want to say 2005, but I think we're talking 2005. And I've just been with it since. It's been changing through as it's evolved. One of these days I need to get out of old habits and, as I say, something like Reaper sounds like a good one to explore.

Beth Sage Phung:

It is. It's not bad. I will say it's not bad at all.

Finbarre Snarey:

When it comes to the audio productions that you've been working on, what kind of challenges have you found when using that platform?

Beth Sage Phung:

I would say one of the challenges is having to know what it sounds like when you're recording, because it has the option of giving you the automatic feedback so you can hear yourself as you're recording. But that really messes with me, so I can't hear myself when I'm speaking. I'll end up slowing down and listening to myself speak. So I tend to close that off and then so I'll disable that feature and then I'll record, but then I won't know really if the recording is going well, technically speaking. So I have to stop and make sure and check, and so usually when recording we'll end up doing maybe three or four takes of each line just in case. So my recording sessions usually end up being several hours.

Finbarre Snarey:

It's funny, you should say, about the um, that effect of disrupting your thoughts and when you hear just a bit of your own voice. Because I I know that for a little while. There was an app that you could get I think it was on android phones, probably on iphones as well and what it would do is it would put a delay, it would record whatever audio was around the phone, put a three second delay on and then broadcast it for the speaker. And if you put that on during a meeting or if somebody was giving some kind of public speech, it would stop them in their tracks, because it's almost impossible for your brain to um right, almost kind of like change the wheel on the car while it's in motion. You know yes, it's.

Beth Sage Phung:

it's very disruptive to the way that you process audio and I have adhd, so I already have audio processing issues in general, so it's already difficult for me to really focus on hearing things and do speaking at the same time. It's interesting I definitely have to listen to music that doesn't have words in it when I'm trying to focus on writing something. Otherwise, I'll start focusing on what I'm hearing.

Finbarre Snarey:

And as editing is notoriously such a such a focused activity, how do you get through? I mean, it's something I find difficult myself, but do you um, I don't know maybe stim while you're working? Uh, do you have to wait for those elusive moments of hyper focus, and that's the day you edit? How does it work for you?

Beth Sage Phung:

honestly, yeah, it's more the latter. I have to really get in the mood and focus for it, otherwise I will immediately get bored, because when it comes to audio editing, as I'm sure you know, you can't listen to anything else while you're doing it because you're listening to audio that you have to edit and cut and adjust. For my brain, it's very boring and very tedious, and so it doesn't give me that dopamine hit that I really need to find it enjoyable. It's definitely something that I really have to kind of lock in and focus on and really want to do it, and usually it ends up being closer to some type of deadline, as people with ADHD tend to be. We tend to be master procrastinators, so we wait until the last minute and then we do it all at once and then we're like all right, it's done and it's sort of obligation feels like misery.

Finbarre Snarey:

My wife almost certainly has ADHD, and I may possibly as well, and I find that so. For example, if I'm working on a bit of audio, just even having a deck of tarot cards in my hand, something to play with, something to mess with while I'm doing it, really does help. I think the solution for me is to actually get my daughter on board and sit with her and, yeah, we could learn how to edit and then delegate to her. I think that's probably the best way forward.

Beth Sage Phung:

Teenagers are so interesting in how absorbed and enthusiastic they get about something that you want to show them. I used to be a high school teacher and I taught one year of eighth year eight so before I worked at my nine to five, that was what I was doing. I absolutely adored working with my teens because they were so gung ho about what they were passionate about and learning new skills and learning new things that were interesting to them. So that was something that I really enjoyed about teaching was that you got to see that spark in their eyes.

Finbarre Snarey:

I'm seeing that spark in your eyes right now. I mean, obviously I'm seeing you over video right now. You've just lit up as soon as you're talking about this.

Beth Sage Phung:

Yes, I absolutely adored teaching. What I did not like was the bureaucracy of public education in America. It's a lot of red tape and hoops to jump through and things always change, and the first year that I started teaching was the year everything shut down, so it was a lot all at once, and we liked to say that our second favorite F word was flexible, so that was kind of our motto for that year.

Finbarre Snarey:

Have you been tempted back?

Beth Sage Phung:

No.

Finbarre Snarey:

No, fair enough.

Beth Sage Phung:

I make exactly the same amount of money doing far less work.

Finbarre Snarey:

Right? Well, let's see what card two has in store. So we're going to keep that one card in the tray and back to the shuffling, right? So let's see what we get. Now, as before, just tell me when to stop.

Beth Sage Phung:

Let's stop there.

Finbarre Snarey:

There, okay, right, the seven of pentacles.

Beth Sage Phung:

Pentacles always find their way to me. I am a Capricorn.

Finbarre Snarey:

Does this feel like your current situation at the moment? Out of interest.

Beth Sage Phung:

I mean looking at that card in particular. Yes, I'm always looking at my finances. I look at my bank account statements, perhaps every single day, at least once a day. My boyfriend and I he's also a capricorn, so we're both very, very focused on our budgets and making sure that we don't make the same financial mistakes that our parents made. Uh, so we both grew up rather I won't say poor, because we had rich childhood experiences, but it was definitely tight financially. So as we've gotten older, we've definitely wanted to prepare our future a lot better and so, financially speaking, we definitely are very kind of contemplative about every purchase we make. We tend not to splurge on things we don't really treat ourselves. So we've gotten in a better habit of being more okay with those type of things of like okay, we can afford this and we can do this, and we won't be put onto the street just because we go to a nice dinner, right, we've definitely got that kind of looking at things and contemplating and definitely counting what's in our hand.

Finbarre Snarey:

Yeah, I think with the people I know in my life who are Capricorns my wife as well I feel that when, as a human being, you're rolled up as a character, the trait, the super ability, the perk of being a Capricorn is the ability to just own spreadsheets, to be the god of Excel.

Beth Sage Phung:

We are planners, we take a look at all the data and we make an informed decision. Capricorns are funny enough, the kind of elder quote unquote of the zodiacs, whereas Aries are kind of the babies In my boyfriend's big three. His moon sign is Aries and so he brings a little more excitement to that in that aspect. So it's nice because it's a nice counterbalance to my Scorpio moon.

Finbarre Snarey:

Of course, my wife doesn't believe a single word of astrology. She's far too sensible and very typically Capricorn. Okay. So seven of pentacles that we've got. It's a card of patience, reflection, rewards of hard work, and it's a card of perseverance, although the growth may not be immediate. So my question would be what long-term goals are you currently cultivating in your career?

Beth Sage Phung:

I would like to work on another poetry collection. So I have one poetry collection that I did in college. It was called Rebellious in Nature and it was a chapbook which is just a small collection of poetry that you kind of self-publish. It was part of a class project. So the other group in the class were working on a project for editing and production of a chapbook, and so they needed a writer for it who had a collection of work, and so I offered up my collection of work. So that was one that I did. I would like to make another at some point, likely called Daddy Issues, because I have several of those. The title is a work in progress, but it's on the list but not set in stone.

Finbarre Snarey:

So I need to ask her what tend to be the themes within your poetry.

Beth Sage Phung:

I'm very curious only daughter of an immigrant, and the expectations of Asian American women, as well as kind of the approach that a person takes with a hybrid identity, which in college one of the things that my literature and writing degree focused on was representation and diversity and how that portrays itself in literature throughout time.

Beth Sage Phung:

Hybrid identity kind of is something that is near and dear to me, because I am half white, half Vietnamese, and so it's kind of not white enough but also not Asian enough. So it's kind of figuring out where your place in the world is, as well as being a non-binary AFAB person, especially in an Asian family, is one of those things. Growing up with depression and anxiety, so kind of struggling with those feelings while in an environment that isn't really supportive of that, and in particular, the person that really wasn't the most supportive was my father, so a lot of it has to do with him and understanding one where he comes from, as well as dealing with my own personal anger and spite towards my childhood experiences. I always say that I am motivated most by spite and second by passion. It's definitely a driving factor for me in my poetry is kind of my own self-therapy of working through those emotions.

Finbarre Snarey:

Have your family members read any of your poetry yet.

Beth Sage Phung:

Yes, my mom was a fan of my poetry. I don't speak to her too much anymore. I've kind of gone non-contact with my family going on year five now, and it's been an interesting experience being in my 20s and not speaking to my family and not having that support system. But at the same time I'm also kind of better off for it and I wouldn't be where I am now and have the experiences and the joys that I have now if I didn't do that. So I didn't have their support in the first place. So now I'm kind of going without it anyway and I've adapted and spread my wings in ways that I wouldn't have been able to had I been still there.

Finbarre Snarey:

If I had a glass of wine in my hand, I'd be toasting to that. Thank you so much for sharing that very intimate glimpse into your family there. If I had a glass of wine in my hand, I'd be toasting to that. Thank you so much for sharing that very intimate glimpse into your family there. We have card three just calling to us yeah Right, are you ready? Of course, okay. So let's see what the final card is.

Beth Sage Phung:

Let's stop there.

Finbarre Snarey:

The Chariots.

Beth Sage Phung:

Oh boy, this one always shows up for me. The Chariot is such a pest.

Finbarre Snarey:

Yeah, part comet, part rollercoaster. What are you getting from this one?

Beth Sage Phung:

The Chariot's always about choices and the paths in front of you and kind of seeing what's in front of you and making the decision to go with one of those choices and committing to that choice. So that's always how I've interpreted that card.

Finbarre Snarey:

Yeah, no, absolutely Same here. Right, Okay. So what the chariot is asking me to ask you is can you describe a time where determination has led you to overcome a significant challenge?

Beth Sage Phung:

I would say definitely. When I decided to move out of my parents' house, I was 24, which is rather old to still be living at home. In my opinion, but also in the American economy, that's kind of the norm these days. It's just simply more cost effective.

Finbarre Snarey:

Was this relatively recent.

Beth Sage Phung:

I am 28 currently. I had to think about that for a moment, so it was relatively recently, yeah, but when I moved out, I really had to commit to that decision because I knew what consequences would come with that. Meaning that I knew. No, go ahead, go ahead. I see a question in yours was that?

Finbarre Snarey:

was that during the pandemic? It was, I believe yes yeah, yeah, because I'm thinking we had a lockdown. Uh, this was around about March 2020, which feels like yesterday yeah, so. I imagine it was something similar for you guys.

Beth Sage Phung:

It definitely was. It was around that same time, yeah. So it was definitely a lot going on and I knew that there would be this kind of explosion of consequences that I had to prepare myself to deal with if I committed to this. But I knew that it was something that I needed to do for my own personal growth and I knew what sacrifices I would have to make, in particular, my relationship with my dad. I didn't expect it to be a complete cutoff, but he was kind of the one that did that. So once that happened, I kind of dusted my hands of it and that was it really. It definitely helped me mature and it helped me come to terms with being okay with facing consequences when they give me really bad anxiety. If you're going to do it even though you're scared, do it scared. That's kind of one of the things that I've really learned is just do it scared, and so that's really helped me experience a lot of new things that I don't think I would have otherwise.

Beth Sage Phung:

I was definitely in what I would call a gilded cage growing up what I would call a gilded cage growing up. So it was nice. It wasn't an awful home. I had a roof over my head I had the essentials of what it takes to raise a child and keep them alive, but as far as the emotional needs as a child I wasn't having those met and I wasn't encouraged to really explore my creative means. So I don't really think I would have been a voice actor or written my own show or written my own poetry with as much freedom as I would have otherwise.

Finbarre Snarey:

So I need to ask how did you draw upon that emotional strength and that determination to make that change?

Beth Sage Phung:

I think it really had to do with one, knowing that I had the support of other people so my friends and my boyfriend. I looked for support outside of my blood and that was a really a really big driving factor in making that decision and I think a part of me just had to just kind of come to terms with breaking it off and being okay with that. I never really had a really strong positive emotional attachment to my dad, so cutting that connection from him wasn't the worst thing in the world to me to do, because there wasn't really a whole lot there to begin with. It was definitely one of those things where after you had to do a cord cutting ceremony and after that you're kind of done with it. So I did one for myself, cut the cord with my father, and after that it was kind of just dust off your hands and move on. Time keeps going.

Finbarre Snarey:

Yeah, I'm awed that in this time of I mean then back in 2020, it was a time of turbulence, of change. We had no way of knowing where the world was going to go, and the idea of life reaching such a kind of like almost like a kind of an event horizon, a critical mass, that you have found the bravery to do that, I found that utterly inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing that thank you.

Beth Sage Phung:

Uh, it was definitely. It was definitely a turning point in my life. I will definitely say that my life trajectory would certainly be different if I hadn't made that choice, but I'm glad that I did it and I encourage others to do it if they're in similar situations, because you're better off for it.

Finbarre Snarey:

Absolutely Right, Sage Fung. Thank you so much for joining us on Tarot Interviews today.

Beth Sage Phung:

Thank you for having me. I had a good time.

Finbarre Snarey:

That wraps up our conversation with Beth Sage Fung of Twin Strangers Productions. We hope you enjoyed exploring her wonderfully frank and uplifting interview, and don't forget to follow us, where you get your podcasts, for links to Sage's incredible work. My name is Finn. Thanks for tuning in and until next time, keep exploring the stories that inspire you.

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